Curse

Not New · Jan 25, 2012, 01:30 PM // 13:30

Can someone tell me why most ppl Don't think stolen speed is a good skill for heroes, especially since all caster groups is the new fad for some reason?

Kelvin Greyheart · Jan 25, 2012, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Why waste an elite on casting faster when mesmer heroes (which should be your primary source of damage) already have fast casting, and can do more damage with an esurge or ineptitude bar instead? General pve is largely about just killing things faster with a splash of defense and healing to stay alive.

Stolen speed fits into none of these rolls. It allows for a higher number of spells to be cast at the start of combat, but does not modify recharges, and as such over the course of a large chain of fights does not contribute to damage in any significant fashion. It does slow enemy casting, but arcane conundrum does as well, is non elite, and serves as highly efficient energy management for heroes.

zweetreet · Jan 25, 2012, 04:08 PM // 16:08

I use stolen speed on a mesmer hero, it's amazing.
got 3x discord with deathly swarm, it rocks.
i think the skill is awesome, also nice with ele's

Coast · Jan 25, 2012, 04:15 PM // 16:15

i like stolen speed, take a me/rt healer imo

Kelvin Greyheart · Jan 25, 2012, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by zweetreet

I use stolen speed on a mesmer hero, it's amazing.
got 3x discord with deathly swarm, it rocks.
i think the skill is awesome, also nice with ele's

Or you could run mesmers, deal more damage, and have shutdown at the same time. Discord is poor damage because it lacks AoE, and that's on top of the conditional mechanics. Swarm is an outright bad skill to begin with. Even with the update, non armor ignoring sources of damage are still almost universally inferior to armor ignoring damage. Discord teams also lack effective shutdown through skills like mistrust, and as a result are required to bring a lot of extra defensive skills, weakening their potential damage output even further.

Sure you can run discord, and it does work. That doesn't make it the most effective set up. Stolen speed simply doesn't fit into most hero team builds for the reasons mentioned above.

EDIT: I will concede that you may be able to find room for it more often on a team utilizing mercs.

mortenya · Jan 25, 2012, 05:43 PM // 17:43

it seems like stole speed would really shine when you're spiking with a skill that has a 1+ cast time, but short recharge, like Searing Flames.

so, if you're wanting to run a searing flames spike team, it could be good, but you'd need to be balling mobs for this to be super effective imo.

i could also see it making RoJ a little better, but again, you need to be balling foes and knocking them down or snaring them to keep them in it.

Amy Awien · Jan 25, 2012, 06:22 PM // 18:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not New

Can someone tell me why most ppl Don't think stolen speed is a good skill for heroes, especially since all caster groups is the new fad for some reason?

Because to be useful it needs at least a moderate investment in Fast Casting which makes the skill less useful for the Mesmer casting it. Thus only casters targeting spells directly on the affected foe may benefit, which rules out many, except Ele's and a handful of specific niche builds.

Hugh Manatee · Jan 25, 2012, 07:12 PM // 19:12

It's a support skill that gives your whole party fast casting, faster casting= faster dead stuff, good for eles, necros, rits ect.. I took ineptitude off my illusion mesmer hero and put in SS, I'm happy with the results, you have clumsy or wandering eye to hit attacking foes with, and an aegis or 2 filters the physical packets enough.

Not New · Jan 26, 2012, 02:15 AM // 02:15

fast casting for whole party > fast casting on mez only

was my original thought... ive heard no convincing argument that says otherwise. thanks for the reply's

Swingline · Jan 26, 2012, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Stolen Speed is indeed not that great unless you have high FC and short recharge spells. One thing you must realize is your giving up an elite slot just to support your other casters and Stolen Speed has terrible range. Your better off running shared burden and 40/40 fire/death sets if you want what stoeln speed gives you.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 26, 2012, 02:58 AM // 02:58

Stolen Speed is an illusion. You aren't getting more DPS because the skills don't recharge any faster. The initial spike of Heroes unloading spells might be faster (and thus, more damage upfront), but an ESurge would compensate for that just as well and it'll add more DPS in the long run.

Stolen Speed also has diminishing returns on Mesmer Heroes overall effectiveness since they already cast fast.

Unless you are running Earthway, RoJway, or some combination of the above, Stolen Speed just isn't worth taking up a valuable Elite skill.

bhavv · Jan 26, 2012, 03:49 AM // 03:49

I dont use Stolen Speed because E Surge, Panic, and PI are better.

yayowars · Jan 26, 2012, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Umm but if you have a spell that takes 2 seconds to cast and 5 to recharge that's 7 seconds. Now, if you reduce the cast time to one second that makes it a total of 6 to deliver that damage packet, so it does better your damage over time.

I don't use the skill on my heroes yet but I'm trying to work it in, so what do I know?

Elad Agilaz · Jan 26, 2012, 04:37 AM // 04:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayowars

Umm but if you have a spell that takes 2 seconds to cast and 5 to recharge that's 7 seconds. Now, if you reduce the cast time to one second that makes it a total of 6 to deliver that damage packet, so it does better your damage over time.

I don't use the skill on my heroes yet but I'm trying to work it in, so what do I know?

The gain is too marginal for a party of heros simply because they do not queue spells. They cast one at a time, with more delay between them than a human would have.

Kunder · Jan 26, 2012, 04:39 AM // 04:39

The Adjacent AoE on it is a complete joke. To make an Adjacent AoE worthwhile you need to be _exceedingly_ powerful, because other things with the same range have the potential to utterly annihilate groups (splinter weapon/other physical buffs, RoJ/other DoTs). These abilities are doing 200-300 damage, Stolen speed is... Stolen speed.

Even if it affected the whole map, it would still be bad. The important thing to remember about reducing cast times is that there is ALWAYS .75s after cast. Even in the rare group full of elementalists casting ONLY 2s cast spells (Which doesn't happen since most of the good ones are already 1s), the actual cast time is 2.75s which only gets cut down to 1.75s. And if you have HCT equipment it gets even worse. Completely not worth an elite slot.

Quote:

Swarm is an outright bad skill to begin with.

Deathly Swarm is awesome. 19 Death Magic and EBSoH says high. With Cracked Armor DS can easily do more damage than mesmer armor ignoring damage spells, and Death Magic/Necromancers are inherently better in the first place about filling out the other 7 skills in your build.

Discord does suck though.

Kaida the Heartless · Jan 26, 2012, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by yayowars

Umm but if you have a spell that takes 2 seconds to cast and 5 to recharge that's 7 seconds. Now, if you reduce the cast time to one second that makes it a total of 6 to deliver that damage packet, so it does better your damage over time.

I don't use the skill on my heroes yet but I'm trying to work it in, so what do I know?

It's the same damage over time. You will still do the same amount of damage in 7 seconds. The initial burst is MARGINALLY higher, and is far surpassed by just bringing a damage Elite.

tuna-fish_sushi · Jan 26, 2012, 06:42 AM // 06:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

It's the same damage over time. You will still do the same amount of damage in 7 seconds. The initial burst is MARGINALLY higher, and is far surpassed by just bringing a damage Elite.

I like stolen speed, don't forget it also slows down their spell casting. That initial burst of damage is generally enough to kill enemies which leads to less time the enemies are wailing on you. I'll save the recharge for when I am running in between groups.